Monday, March 16, 2009

is the trinity doctrine biblical? part 2


  1. Hey Maribel,

    Not offended at all.

    Off the cuff I have to say that just because a decision was enforced by sword doesn't make the decision wrong. It's not the truth's fault the way people use that truth.

    I have to ask: Have you really studied the history of the creeds? The trinity? The Bible? Or are you just parroting ideas JW's have fed you?

    I do appreciate the dialog.


  2. Thank you Demian, I appreciate the dialog as well.

    NO, I am not just "parroting ideas" from the JW's.

    If I believed in the trinity, I feel I would be "parroting" ideas from worldly creeds, and not the simple and pure teachings of the Bible. I have done my personal research extensively, that is why I converted to JW. I was raised Catholic.

    It's pretty clear to me why the trinity doctrine was (and is still) debated so fiercely.

    If it's plainly taught in the Bible, what was all the fuss about, why all the debates for centuries. It's fair to state that a doctrine that is supposedly "central" to ones faith, it should be clearly and implicitly stated in the Bible and not just hinted upon.

    The trinity doctrine is confusing, and in my opinion does not allow one to KNOW the only true God, which is exactly what the enemy Satan wants. As I see it, this doctrine serves Satan quiet well.

    Thank you for watching the videos

  3. Maribel, I apologize if I came across crusty. ;-)

    And hey, I'm with you, the Trinity is confusing. It doesn't settle in our minds, easily, that's for sure. We must remember what God said in Deuotoronomy 29:29 and Isaiah 55:8-9.

    Certain things our finite minds will never be able to comprehend.

    I watched the first video by Dan Mage's and certainly see that he knows his stuff. Do the other 2 videos present a counter argument? Do they include someone who defends the Trinity? I'd be curious.

    And you have to remember that the Trinity isn't the only hotly debated topic in the Bible. The atonement and election are hot issues. But I have a hunch JW's don't believe that either. No, in fact you believe in universalism. Don't you? I don't want to misrepresent you.

    Why do you believe in universalism?

    Listen: I so appreciate the discussion, but I have to say the JW's are awfully guilty of breaking fundamentals rules of interpreting a text, namely the Bible. Why do you even use it? Look forward to hearing from you.

  4. Jehovah God reveals exactly what we need to know about him, he knows what our minds can handle and that's what he feeds us. It's what any loving parent would do. He wants us to have a close and loving relationship with him, but that's not possible if in our own minds we don't really understand who he is, or can't make sense of his person. There is so much about creation, the laws of physics and other things that our minds cannot understand, and God does not expect that from us. But he does expect that we know him (John 17:3)

    part 2 and 3 of the videos is pretty much the same as part 1, Dan keeps making his case about the trinity.

    You are correct, there are many biblical subjects greatly debated, but if we just go only to the Bible, the truth is there about everything. What every God loving person really needs to understand is that our enemy Satan the Devil has done a good job of making sure people are and remain confused about really simple things, man he is so good at it, it amazes me!

    I'll admit, I don't know much about universalism, I looked it up and there seems to be a few definitions... what is yours?

    Do you want to know what JW's believe about being saved?

    Recently on Jeopardy,one of the answers was "It's the most accurate translation of the Holy Scriptures?" No one got the correct question, so Alex Trebek said "What is the; New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, printed by the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society." The basis for that answer is in the following book. Book: "TRUTH IN TRANSLATION: ACCURACY AND BIAS IN ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT" Author: Jason David BeDuhn is the Associate Professor of Religious Studies at Northern Arizona University in Flagstaff. He holds a B.A. in Religious Studies from the University of Illinois, Urbana, an M.T.S. in New Testament and Christian Origins form Harvard Divinity School, and a Ph.D. in Comparative Study of Religions form Indiana University, Bloomington The Nine English Translation.

    Here is what a Greek speaking person commented about the book mentioned above:

    "I am Greek, I have been raised in Greece, I have studied Classical Greek for two years in high school (Classical Greek is much more complicated than koine, or Common Greek) and I have been studding the original Greek text of the Bible for about 10 years. Having this background, I responsibly say that this book presents quite right, well documented and reliable linguistic information. Yes, its writer must be considered adequate as regards his knowledge of the Biblical Greek. So, this book sheds plenty of light about subjects of which the common English reader has no idea. For example: English readers often claim that NW is false in John 1:1. Trinitarians in Greece have never used this specific verse to claim that the New World Translation (NW) is wrong, since all the Orthodox versions read actually the same with the Greek version of the NW. And this happens because the wording of this verse is very clear for the Greek reader, and there is no place for debate. I am sorry to say this, but for a Greek it is ridiculous to debate on John 1:1. Of course, many will be disappointed by BeDunh because he proves that many of the famous Bible versions are inaccurate and mislead their readers. But face the facts! What matters is not what translators say but what Bible says!"- Basileios Tsialas (Athens,Greece)

  5. Thanks for an excellent blog. The truth is so logical and simple that it is amazing that people stumble over it.

    What did Paul say about it? Wanting to have their ears tickled? They want "mystery," whereas God provides clear truth.